There’s this term that’s become more and more popular as our society has gotten more and , and you’ve probably heard of it. It’s called “failing up,” and it’s both a favored pastime and (myself included). Failing up is usually used in a pejorative sense, but sometimes it makes for a pretty damned good story.

It’s that last category that concerns and his podcast, Driven to Fail. In it, he talks to people in the automotive industry who have built sometimes infamous, sometimes legendary, careers on the back of big failures, and he seeks to find out what drives those people to push past those missteps and on to new things.

Normally I wouldn’t bother talking about something that was put out by that insurance company that must not be named, but this is such an interesting reversal of the normal idea of covering the biggest and best, the winners and the success junkies, that it’s worth sharing with you all. Sam also finds a way to approach these subjects with his typical level of kindness, insight and humor, making it an easy listen.

So, if you’re bored at work today — and I know you are because you’re reading this — you should toss on a pair of headphones and enjoy.